WesleyanTheology.com

Discussion

This page is a place where we can discuss various theological issues. A set of questions is posted below. (More questions will be added later.)

To answer the questions or to respond to another comment, write to MBird@wesleyantheology.com. In the subject box, write: Wesleyan Theology Discussion. Within a day or so, your comment should be posted onto this page. I retain the right to refuse or edit comments.

The First Set of Questions:

a. How is the free will of man and the foreknowledge of God compatible? If God knows the future, does not that make the future certain? If the future is certain, does not that imply that we have no choice but to fulfill the future that God knows will occur?

b. If the Bible teaches free will and also the absolute foreknowledge of God, is not this a contradiction? Does not this then call into question the inspiration of Scripture?

Responses:

a. This issue is a very complex one, and I cannot fully grasp it. I have some ideas on it, but find them rather vague, and difficult to articulate. God may know what choices we make, but He has still given us the choices. God's foreknowledge doesn't change the fact that He allows is to go ahead and make decisions in choosing our directions.

Is the future certain simply because God knows it? Though there is slight difference, since we are referring to an almighty Creator or orchestrates his creation, I would like to give an analogy: when you are reading a book that you have written, you may know what will happen and how the story will end, but your knowledge of it doesn't make it happen.

Our free will is what determines our destiny. There are possibly a number of paths we can take, and God gives guidance. He sees the end of each path, but even in His sovereignty He only leads through our spirits, He doesn't force us. He may send calamity or circumstances to help influence what we do, but we still make the ultimate choices.

b. There are certain things that will definitely happen: the rapture, the judgment, etc. But God has given man a free will; knowing what choices one will make is different from forcing one to make those choices. So if there is no true contradiction then the inspiration of scripture is not threatened. (Evangeline Day)

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Two questions I want to propose: Does knowledge cause something to happen? How does one know that God knows what is going to happen? What I mean is: does man know what God knows will happen? (Nick Logan)

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I fully realize the un-knowable conflict between God's sovereignty (foreknowledge) and His grace. Yet after what I believe to be careful examination of the Scriptures coupled with the myriads of testimonials to God's wonderful grace, I have concluded that we are unable to fully comprehend this Biblical contrast.

Yes, it is true that God does know the future and where we all shall spend eternity; either with Him in heaven or (God forbid) in a devil's hell. However when one sees the Biblical moments of grace that the Lord extends to mankind, one cannot deny that God NEVER allows His sovereignty to trump His grace and mercy (ref. Genesis 18). We see Abraham pleading with the Lord to set aside what we now know was the inevitable. Yet, the focus must not be upon what actually happened. We MUST look to what the Lord was willing to do - And, that was to completely set aside the destruction of two wicked cities simply to extend His amazing grace and mercy for as little as ten righteous people.

You see, we mere, simple and sinful mortals will NEVER fully understand the extent of God's grace. Therefore, my conclusion on this matter is this (based on what Biblical information we have and exactly what God has done and is doing for me personally) - If the Lord Almighty decides that to interrupt what we consider to be concrete in time and space, then He will do so whether we understand or not; and, I say "Praise the Lord!" I was certainly headed for a devil's hell until Jesus knocked on my heart's door and changed the future for me.

ALSO: If one is an true, evangelical Christian today, how can one confidently share the Gospel (Good News) to a lost and dying world? I mean if the Lord refuses to alter the future because His omniscience is set in stone, and His grace cannot trump the way the future is supposed to play out, then these same brethren who preach and teach "security" in salvation are, in fact, denying their own teaching. If one subscribes to the belief that the Lord knows exactly how many will be in heaven and how many in eternal damnation - and, that God's grace cannot change this "fact" - then, one cannot have any real hope because one cannot really "know" that he/she is truly born again and on their way to heaven. The future is set in stone because of their belief that God's sovereignty cannot and will not be interrupted by anything. Thus, how can we really know...? This is why I cannot accept this approach to Biblical theology.

Thank you for this forum, and I do hope some will be able to learn true, Biblical theology; and, be able to convey their beliefs.

(Darin Gary revdarin@comcast.net)

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a. How is the free will of man and the foreknowledge of God compatible?

The consistent emphasis of Scripture is a God-given responsible freedom. That God “knows the end from the beginning” is certain, yet the Scriptures again and again point to the fact that man is responsible to choose. Duet. 30:15, “Today I offer you the choice of life and good, death or evil.” Other verses that prove man’s responsibility and freedom to choose are: Joshua 24:15; 1 Kings 18:21; and Mark 10:21 to name a few.

God’s commands us to serve to Him. How could we if we have no free will? Why command us to do something that we have no control over? Why offer us to choose when the choice has already been made? Look at these passages:

1. God us commands to turn to Him (Prov 1:23; Isa 31:6; Ezek 14:6; Matt 18:13; Acts 3:19).

2. God commands to repent (I Kings 8:47; Matt 2:3; Mark 1:15; Luke 13:3,5; Acts 2:38).

3. God commands to believe (II Chr 20:20; Isa 43:10; John 6:29; 14:1; Acts 16:31).

4. God commands to obey (Acts 5:32; II Thess 1:8; Heb 5:9).

This sure seems to imply free will.

If God knows the future, does not that make the future certain?

Knowing something does not imply causation. I know the sun will rise tomorrow that does not mean I will cause it. In His infinite wisdom (Isaiah 46:9-10), God certainly knows ultimately who will reject Him and who will serve Him, but that does not imply that God causes or forces people to either serve Him or reject Him.

If the future is certain, does not that imply that we have no choice but to fulfill the future that God knows will occur?

God does not operate our wills, but he does cooperate with us. He guides us; speaks to us; warns us; encourages us; and woos us, but He never forces us to do anything. That would not be consistent with free will. (Travis Johnson)

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This is a very complex topic wherein a simple answer is not easily found. However, this does not mean that there is no answer to these seemingly contradictory terms – that is, “foreknowledge” and “free will.” I will try my best to articulate my ideas in a sensible and logical manner.

There is no doubt that God is sovereign over all things and He definitely knows what lies ahead of us. God’s sovereignty is manifested in the act of giving us “free will,” the capacity to chose for ourselves what we desire to do, yet at the same time, God continuously maintains control over everything, including us.

Man possesses free will to make moral decisions for themselves. Man is free to exercise this free will in a way that is pleasing to God or in a way that is contrary to the will of God. Even though God is sovereign, God will not force us to “freely” do his will. There are things God cannot do, such as, God cannot lie or God cannot make 1+1=3. In order for man to be free, God has given us the freedom to rebel because God cannot make us free and “not” free at the same time. This is man’s free will.

God’s knowledge is limitless and it has no boundaries, therefore he knows everything past, present, and future. Hence, we can conclude that God has foreknowledge. However, foreknowledge does not imply causation. This is where it gets sticky. The fact that God knows I will take a nap, does not mean that God’s foreknowledge causes me to take a nap. Remember that we are people with free will. The future choices of man, through their free will, is not determined by the foreknowledge of God, rather, God’s foreknowledge is based on actual free willed choices of man in the future events. The fact that God sees things in the future does not mean that these events will happen merely because God sees them. Again, foreknowledge does not imply causation. Therefore, there is no contraction between foreknowledge and man’s freedom. (Chris Comparativo)

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In answer to this question I would first like to make this statement: “Knowledge does not imply Causation.” If information (knowledge) of an event/happening alone could make it occur--wow!, I am extremely powerful; you see, I know the sun is going to rise tomorrow, so in knowing that I must be the cause of it happening.

You see how out of hand this could get. Some people ask the question but if God knows what choices I’m going to make does that mean when I make a wrong one He chose for me to do that?

To this I would say: here is where God’s infinite wisdom comes in. God truly does know all the beginng, and the end of our lives, but just because He knows where we will start, and where we will end, this does not mean He makes it happen. You see, God gave us as his creation this thing called FREE WILL. The ability to make our own choices is incredible. In other words, we, not God, choose where we will end up. So when you make a bad choice and it leads you somewhere terrible, just because God knew that you would make that choice does not mean God made you make it.

I think if we would all just look at every Choice we have ever made in our life--good or bad--we see that there was always a different one we could have made. God didn’t make any for us it was OUR CHOICE. (But if we ask Him for help making a choice He is willing to help us)

Now some people say, “Well if we are free to make our own choices and God has no hand in them being made does this put a limit on the power of God? Good question. The answer is NO, it does not put a limit on God. God is sovereign. “God is so sovereign that He is not afraid to give His creation freedom to make their own choices.” We are to live with the understanding that we have limited freedom within the boundaries that God in His sovereignty has set up.

Again I would like to say that knowledge does not imply causation. (Phillip Mills)